Guilloche!

[Mooselake]

Getting there.  No attempt at any actual art in this image, trying for line spacing and twists and turns (hey, I'm an engineer) but getting closer to dialing in the settings.  It helped to get out the ruler and resize the window to the size I was cutting and not full screen for previews.  Most everything was at 100mm/minute.  Those 10mm line segments on the left are depth tests with hand written gcode, 0.05 to 0.35 mm (got carried away, way too deep, broke the tiny tip off the 20 degree bit) in one group, the second group was much shallower.  0.05 looked good in the second batch even with the shortened bit, although I didn't trust my spoilboard milling enough to use it so the bigger design was at 0.1mm (in retrospect 0.05m, that's like 2 thou, would have been just fine).  Nice burr free edges and the detail is getting better.  Might rework the test code to keep 0.05 and experiment with speeds, but the free online feeds and speeds calculator liked 100mm/minute for harder aluminum (said 0KW of cutting power, not really aimed at the 100W spindle market) and a 1 flute carbide bit, and the results look good.  Now I need to develop some artistic technique...

I found another program, Guilloche Maker^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Guillochograph, and downloaded a demo copy just to experiment.  It comes with a number of preset examples but in a brief try I didn't get the hang of it's slider settings.  When I get back to the windows computer (this is a chromebook) I'll post the type of design I really wish I could make and maybe the alaskan cruiser could help me with the settings after his well deserved vacation.  Hope the moose and mosquitos weren't too big a problem...

If you look at the bigger design there's a couple places where it had some sharp angles and changed directions, don't know if that was an artifact from Carbide Create, my selection skills, or the wiz or the way it's supposed to work.

Kirk

[Mooselake]

Awesome work on the guilloche Kirk, and thanks for sharing.

Thanks, Bob!  The real awesomeness is from Art, I think they're sort of sad looking and as they say "needs more work".  Hopefully they'll give somebody else a tiny step up the learning curve, or maybe an "I can do better than that".  It is amazing that a $200US CNC router can make guilloche designs on a random piece of big box anodized aluminum, just the operator needs some improvements

I forgot to attach the pictures, oldtimers...

Kirk

[Mooselake]

Here's the router, and for the amusement of those with real shops, the spare bedroom setup.  Mrs. Moose just ordered a cleanup...

I think the table, lamp, supply cart, and misc stuff cost more than the router, maybe I should have gone for the 3040 4th axis with an 800w water cooled spindle and set it on some milk crates (around 30 came with the house, the PO was a lawyer and had a big 2x12/milk crate shelf setup for his legal files that we had to disassemble)

I was going to throw in a pic of the 20x15 drag chain I ordered (hey, it's 20mm extrusion) on the router but that's just too embarrassing.  Guess it's been a long time since the last order.

Kirk

[BobL]

Kirk;

lol  I hear ya bud, been ordered by the Mrs for a clean up also, however I do believe more items exist now, not intentionally, just the way things worked out. lol

Great work, thanks for sharing and keep it up.

Cheers
Bob
;)

[Mooselake]

Last one today, I promise.  This is the example picture from Guillochograph, linked from the page I referenced above.  I was unable to figure out how to make a similar design with Vexx.  They also have some very cool diamond drag images, but that might be too much to expect from my little guy.  OTOH with a 1/4" ER11 collet and one of those cheaper spring loaded things, hmm.

Kirk

[Mooselake]

Today's effort, 25x25mm.  Same broken top 20 degree V bit, 0.05mm DOC (had to rezero the bit, the piece of paper I was using is 0.05mm and forgot to compensate for it), 100mm/minute.  Scrubbed with a stiff nylon brush but very little ridging around the cut even before that.  Might need to dig out a new bit and get narrower lines.  Could use a better camera and lighting, the lines are a little out of focus and maybe a smaller light source than the 20W LED in the desk lamp would bring them out better

Kirk

[Hessel Oosten]

Here is another small one.

http://gearotic.com/ESW/FavIcons/http:/ ... 266#p14266

Hessel

[Mooselake]

Your post was my inspiration to actually try making a guilloche pattern!  It took a while because of some knee problems (you'd think that with two knees, 4 on a moose, that there's enough redundancy it wouldn't matter) it didn't happen until recently.  My results aren't as good as yours, they're on a $200US machine with a 7000 rpm 100W spindle and those cheap flat sided V bits, plus there's operator issues.  I need to find out what angle V bit works best, trying to avoid an Amazon shopping spree and just buy a bunch of them, and the inexpensive assortments are lower angle (10 to 40 iirc) bits.  Might even try an inexpensive diamond drag bit once I get the technique down.

I found that while trying to mouse move the sliders approached and exceeded my dexterity limits that the keyboard arrow keys would work.

I've been whiling away the morning watching YouTube videos on Guilloche (my excuse is limited mobility, but when Mrs. Moose notices that will come to an end) and stumbled across an explanation of how a native french speaker pronounces guilloche; trying to pronounce words I've only seen in writing can be amusing.  FWIW (80% of everything on the Internet is sheep manure), https://youtu.be/qQiQSu1XLTY

Kirk

[Hessel Oosten]

Kirk,

Great ones are (you probably have seen them):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS_G8Vm1gyQ part 1-5

and:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VKASuwatG0

Hessel

[Mooselake]

Thanks, Hessel, I saw the second but not the first series.  Bit bad on the micing but nice to watch.  That sure was a lot of stepping and adjusting to get the watch face pattern, far more than I expected.  Find the right cutter (or drag bit) and CNC sure looks like the way to go.

I saw a video where somebody engraved a penny with a one flute V bit, like mine, with the spindle turned off.  Don't think I want to try it with these skinny bits, but something with a steeper angle might work.  From watching and Internetting around 90s give a more pleasing shape to the cut, allow better definition with closer together lines, and overlap well.  Maybe I'll succumb to temptation (the evils of one click buying) and get a set, can always add to them later, and see if that holds true on the underpowered wonder.

Kirk

[Richard Cullin]

i got one of these

http://cnc-aid.com

to engrave/mill pcb's  , not a great success for that but it does a nice job engraving metals
with those flat v bits.  makes zeroing and doc less critical plus less tip bust offs

[ArtF]

Hi Guys:

  I'm back at 4:00 am yesterday and am Jet Lagging my way back to sensibility.

I have to say I was pleased to read this thread. The work is in my opinion outstanding. 
I've always described myself as a frustrated artist and when I write a module like the
guilloche its my way of teaching myself something, often at the request of
someone from these pages or an interesting math paper that enters my reading list.

  Sometimes, as in the case of CNC in general I go on to gain some expertise in
the subject, but often I learn enough to satisfy my curiosity and move on to the next
project. In those cases I never develop much  in that subject but instead hope it
inspires others to do so by introducing them to the subject and letting them follow 
though to becoming experts in their own right.

  This is a great example of that. Ive found that the artist is usually his worse critic
and Kirks work looks better than he thinks. There are a couple of superb packages
out there for more in depth guilloches as mentioned and I'm really pleased this
module gave reason to seek them out.

  If you guys would like to list in bullet form here any corrections I can do to make it
a bit easier I will see what I can do. I dont think Ill be making adding capabilities
to it for more complex operations but I'm happy to fix any deficiencies I can do
in reasonable code time.


For almost 2 years I've been working on a module for linkages that has sucked me
into a black hole of learning math on a level at which I simply dont belong. It may
or may not ever get released but it has dominated my coding time for awhile and is
why I can only go so deep in adding to a present module.

  Thanks to all that kicked in here, it adds to an archive of knowledge on a very
interesting subject in the context of machining. As my head clears its 5 hour
overrun ( or is that underrun ), I will start adding to the codebase as always.

Great thread..

Art

[Mooselake]

Richard, that spring loaded gadget claims that it works up to 50K RPM.  The ones I've seen are essentially tubes with a spring in them, no way to grip the bit and spin it.  How does it keep the bits turning?  Or let them spin for drag engraving, although that might not be a issue for the conical diamond bits.

I've been looking at this drag tool, but need to exhaust V bits first, just ordered a 2 flute 90 degree off Amazon, all the one fluters were ship from china and I'm too impatient.  Cost about the same as 5 or 10 of the flat sided single flute bits, hope it's 5x as good :)

Kirk

[Mooselake]

Art, glad to see you weren't trampled by one of my wild Alaskan brethren!  Hope you enjoyed the trip!

I make no claims to artistry, that belongs to Mrs Moose and the three moosettes who got it from their maternal art teacher grandmother (or mom for the Mrs).  Maybe it's the engineering background but I enjoy geometric art.  Made a trip to Azerbaijan a few years ago where everything is covered with it!

I remember I took lots of math classes, just not what was in them.  My programming background was mostly OS and real-time and none of this gooey stuff, so I'm really glad you're a lot better at it than I am.

Along with the V bit I ordered a book on Guilloche, history and discussion of the mechanical gadgets from the past rather than modern CNC techniques.  Lots of time to sit around and read for the near future (looks like I get a final surgery and new knee around late September) and hope I'll get some ideas.  Rosettes, followers, and pumpers are far more than you'd want to add to Vexx.

Besides Guillochomatic, Bill Ooms has public domain rose engine simulation software, and the (apparently late) Alan Battersby (archived site here)wrote a Bazly pattern simulator in g code, along with other rose engine software.  Don't think I could get a rose engine past Mrs. Moose just yet.  Plus there's still gears and flourishes to try first on the baby router.

Any recommendations for carving implements, V bit angles, or one of those diamond dragon bits?  How to tweak Vexx to get something like the 3 dimensional appearing picture I found above?

Thus continues the trip down the rabbit hole.  Too many interests, too little time... 

Kirk

[Richard Cullin]

How does it keep the bits turning?

i have an older model, the flat of the v bit holds the bit still. you need to insert bit into tube from top , then add spring  then grub screw compresses the lot in the tube.  its a bit of a fiddle.  its unclear how new model works but its much more costly and implies bits can be fitted from bottom without disassembly.
i use it at 10000 - 22000 rpm with no vibration issues